And I hope that somewhere out there is information that some of YOU may have that will help them too! This is great! Two new sites dedicated to the instruments and memory of H. White and Foster Reynolds! This, along with Olds Central and the Conn Loyalist sites (plus vintagecornets.com), will increase what we know about the great makers of the past and the awesome horns they lovingly made! Tom plankowner110 Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3358 Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: Perhaps TH members can send the webmasters of hnwhite.com photographs of their vintage King trumpets, cornets, and other instruments to build a photo library. I own a mint condition 1055T Silver Flair trumpet.) _________________ Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631G flugel DaveH Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3840 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: It's a very nice website.as long as you have a high speed connection.

1. King 603 Cornet Serial Numbers

A King Cleveland 602 cornet, circa 1975-1981. This is comprised of brass with a flared bell, all valves accounted for and attached mouth piece. Serial number 578603 and includes a carrying case. By the 1919 catalog this cornet is no longer in production. Earl Williams Model 6 Trombone. Rare Burbank Earl Williams model 6 trombone.500' bore slide with 8' bell. This one was made by Bob Williams, Earl's son. The earliest cornets are stamped 'HN White Sole Agent' and were imported to Cleveland around 1893-1907. White's Company's earliest days (1905-1910), they made the finest cornets on the market and led the way in innovation and quality. Early cornets will have a 'lion head' by the serial numbers.

The development of a serial number list has been very difficult because of the lack of official records. White kept very detailed records but when the company was sold to the Seeburg Corporation all official records were destroyed.

Original 'King' model horns can be recognized by a lions head medalion that is mounted to the bell or the second valve tube. One sold on eBay about four months ago.

Henderson White, founder of the HN White Company, started his business as a proprietor of a small repair shop in Cleveland, Ohio. In 1894, with the help of Mr. Thomas King, a local trombone player, White developed his first trombone. It was considered a “revelation” to the music world due to its radically different bell, bore, and mouthpipe designs.

I go back time and time again jazzpik Veteran Member Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Posts: 104 Location: Atlanta Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: I agree this is an excellent site and they are very helpful with questions. _________________ 1933 King Silvertone Cornet For Sale! Giakara Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3017 Location: Greece Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: H. WHITE (KING) VINTAGE HORN WEBSITE! Tom turner wrote: Hi, This was posted on the Horns forum but probably belongs here better. A decendant of H.

As for sale value, that is driven by the market, but a silver-belled version will generally go for substantially more than an equivalent brass model. In my experience, restoring these horns is best done for the joy of owning and playing, as it usually costs more to do a restoration than you can get out of selling it. Bear in mind that collectors often shy away from restored horns, as the restoration can mask problems that they don't want to buy into.

• • • • • • • • ->:: Author Message tom turner Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 6645 Location: USA Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: H. WHITE (KING) VINTAGE HORN WEBSITE! Hi, This was posted on the Horns forum but probably belongs here better. A decendant of H. White has put up a fanstastic website dedicated to H. White and all the years before the White family sold out in 1965. There is so much great information about the instruments, the family, the factory, the celebrity endorsers, catalogues, etc.

The serial# puts the horns manufacture year of 1935. Between 1928-1950 H.N White started putting on sterling silver bell's on to their Master trumpet and cornet models. The serial number leads me to believe that this cornet might have a sterling silver bell. What do you guys think? Am I wrong or right? I'm thinking if I buy this horn and have it restored, about how much would that cost?

Click to expand.Sounds like you've done some research already. If you have not already gone to these sites, they are very good too: and.

Either way let us know so we can add to or knowledge base. I hope this helps. Gill _________________ Gill BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6170 Location: AVL NC USA Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: Gilligan wrote: Does your Master model cornet have the slide lock on the main tuning slide? If your cornet has any sort of patent pending markings then it was probably made sometime between March 1, 1915 and August 27, 1918. Wow, Gill, that's awesome that you had this information! Mine has no slide lock on the main tuning slide, but it does have PAT.PEND'G below the serial #. The sound on this horn is great, but my endurance on it is bad because the valves are leaky and in need of a replate/refit.

For more information on Silver Bells.

Rich Gilligan Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2004 Posts: 625 Location: Colorado Springs. CO Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: Quote: he’s saying that this horn is 1913 That would be pretty close to the 1915 date we have established here. Makers would put a patent pending on a horn to both protect a design from being copied and possibly improved upon and also for marketing purposes. A patent pending mark could be placed on a horn prior to the date the patent application is received by the patent office. It is possible that your cornet was made in the year preceding the patent application and or the other date of 1913 is off by a couple of years. The screw under the second valve is only shown in two of the four patent drawings that display the whole horn configuration. Figures 1 through 4 are drawings of different views that would have the screw under the second valve visible but only figures 3 and 4 actually have the screw in the drawing.

Please keep in mind that most catalogs were dated on the back and should be trusted more than the serial number list. After 1966, all instruments were manufactured in Eastlake and engraved with 'King Musical Instruments.' 1/01/2008 We have reevaluated the serial number list to reflect new information. The number of instruments produced in the early years 1893-1905, has been reduced. The serial number lists are NOT 100% accurate.

I have a new resolve to get the valves done and play this little sucker. The tone really is great; right down my alley! It sure is nice to learn some history about some of these great instruments.

I'm thinking if I buy this horn and have it restored, about how much would that cost? What would be the resale value once its restored? Hi, I found a King Master Model for sale online.

I have a high speed connection at work, and it is great. Otherwise, I can go wash the car while I'm waiting for it to download. I'm glad the Silver Flair has been added to the list of trumpet models. BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6170 Location: AVL NC USA Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: This is great..

There's an additional screw directly below the 2nd valve slide that is not on mine. His serial number is 16,8XX, which would be older than mine, but you said that the patent was for the tuning slide lock in 1918 or something, and he's saying that this horn is 1913. I'm more confused than ever! However, that's okay, I'm still convinced that I need to get the valve job on this horn and just play it. Looking at Nick's collection is bad for my addiction, which has been dormant for awhile. I can't go to his website too much or I'll be in trouble!

The valves do move but the 1st and 3rd valves are sluggish on the return up. Maybe they need some valve oil? The serial# puts the horns manufacture year of 1935. Between 1928-1950 H.N White started putting on sterling silver bell's on to their Master trumpet and cornet models. The serial number leads me to believe that this cornet might have a sterling silver bell. What do you guys think?

Not at all what I remembered. One of my cousins wanted it and I gave it to him. Shame on me for the second time. Gilligan Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Apr 2004 Posts: 625 Location: Colorado Springs. CO Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: I'm going to have to correct myself abit here.

I have trouble moving my sight right to left and just one line down to continue reading within a paragraph. Enlarging the text with my computer helps a little bit. I am 99 percent sure that I read the beginning and the end of that paragraph recently, but I was unable to read the middle of the paragraph. So I really do appreciate your answer for me. Mark _________________.

• • • • King Serial Number Ranges By Model Please note that there are a few with the 'King' name on them that were not made by the HN White Company: • Pre-1916 Kings are or Evette & Schaeffer stencils. • The King Tempo is a stencil. • The is a Kohlert or Amati stencil (probably Kohlert). The name is from King's association with SML: Strasser-Marigaux-Lemaire. 3.82 kilograms to pounds. • The is an SML stencil • 'The New King' and 'Toneking' are model names for a series of horns • 'Recording King' was a model name for a series of stencil horns, mainly made by Model Start # End # 50,000 (1916) 110,000 (1929) 110,000 (1929) 180,000 (1935) 180,000 (1935) 511,000 (1975) 272,000 (1945) 800,000 (1998) 731,000 (1995) 736,000 (1996).

I've posted the details about this in another thread. The UMI site shows that the horn with the serial number of 50,000 was made in 1915. This can't be correct as the horn above had to of been made sometime after Aug. I suspect that the UMI and Lars lists are off by about five years with the 50,000 being manufactured closer to 1920. White started serializing horns somewhere around 1897 and to the best of my knowledge didn't have separate lists for different instruments. I don’t know what number he started with. Does your Master model cornet have the slide lock on the main tuning slide?

What do you guys think? Am I wrong or right?

King 603 Cornet Serial Numbers

Two new sites dedicated to the instruments and memory of H. White and Foster Reynolds! This, along with Olds Central and the Conn Loyalist sites (plus vintagecornets.com), will increase what we know about the great makers of the past and the awesome horns they lovingly made!

If your cornet has any sort of patent pending markings then it was probably made sometime between March 1, 1915 and August 27, 1918. Wow, Gill, that's awesome that you had this information!

And I hope that somewhere out there is information that some of YOU may have that will help them too! This is great!

One sold on eBay about four months ago. All others were horns 'Made by King Craftsmen', like the Liberty, the Master, the American Standard, the Cleveland, etc. And were only called King in a generic fashion.

Lucky for me I got to do it on the same day! I had one thing done to this horn that makes it not original, and that was to have an Olds Super-style 1st valve slide thumb saddle mounted on the 1st valve slide. It works great, I don't have any intonation problems that can't be corrected with that slide, and I'm thrilled to death (can you tell?). I had tried to sell this horn once a couple years ago, and the guy shipped it back ('cuz it needed a valve job), and now I'm glad he did. Every once in a great while the gamble pays off. _________________ ============== MadMan Regular Member Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11 Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:27 am Post subject: hnwhite.com You've got that right! This website is chock full of in depth history!

I own a mint condition 1055T Silver Flair trumpet.) _________________ Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631G flugel DaveH Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3840 Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: It's a very nice website.as long as you have a high speed connection. I have a high speed connection at work, and it is great. Otherwise, I can go wash the car while I'm waiting for it to download. I'm glad the Silver Flair has been added to the list of trumpet models.

White, including the Master model cornet which set the industry standard. The Master model cornet is also known as the 'under slung' cornet because of it's unusual entry point into the valves. In 1918 the company was incorporated and 'Co' was added to the engraving of all instruments, before 1918 the engraving read simply as 'H. The list of H.

I'm glad the Silver Flair has been added to the list of trumpet models. BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6170 Location: AVL NC USA Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: This is great.. I was able to finally determine that my King Master cornet is a 1932, not a 1933.. I wasn't sure until just now. Thanks for posting this, Tom! Too bad I don't make enough money to be a collector!

What would be the resale value once its restored? Click to expand.Sounds like you've done some research already. If you have not already gone to these sites, they are very good too: and. The Master Model is a great horn, and I love my brass-bell version. However, you need to know that they were produced in both silver and brass bells in any given year.